AllThingsShelly4.html

Psalm 22 is the story Jesus taught when He cried "why hast thou forsaken me?" When on the cross, the message of Jesus was:

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:15

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Ps.22:16

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog. Psalm 22:20

Assembly is: Edah (h5712)ay-daw'; a stated assemblage (spec. a concourse, or gen. a family or crowd: - assembly, company, congregation, multitude, people, swarm.

In prophecy and in reality when the clergy "piped" they were real or implicated as "dogs" and their musical performance, even if it had honest intentions, was and is the participation in piercing the hands of Jesus all over again. The idolatry is identified as "the idolatry of talent."

But what if we become a male prostitute to possibly preach the gospel to a few male prostitutes? Isn't that what Paul meant? No. Whatever the motive, Christianity is not about ministering to prostitutes or even criminals who have earned their way into prison with crimes against humanity.

What is a dog in this language?

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

While the clergy danced and circled Jesus because He would not dance and lament the effeminate dance while they played the flute, the watchmen like most watchmen were paralyzed with effeminate fear of the loss of their jobs and temple:

His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Is.56:10

Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Is.56:11

Now, the music issue:

We just have to love the way Dr. Shelly always sets up a sharp-pointed analogy to make those who wouldn't ridicule those who wear different clothes guilty if they reject those who love different worship music. That is called mind manipulation and doesn't have a shred of "core gospel" in it. The first division over the introduction of instrumental music used the same arguments used today: "We must add instruments to keep our young people." J. W. McGarvey wrote in part:

That a vast amount of evil has been occasioned by the introduction of instrumental music into Christian worship is undeniable.

Beginning with the first instance of it among us which I can remember that which caused a schism in the church in St. Louis in the year 1869 (Our Note:1851 Midway KY by a liberal over the physical objections of the elder), its progress has been attended by strife, alienation, and division, with all their attendant evils, in hundreds of congregations.

Before this it had bred similar evils among Methodist societies and Baptist and Presbyterian churches; for all these bodies in their early days knowing that the practice originated in the Roman Catholic Church, regarded it as a Romish corruption and

refused to tolerate it until it was forced upon them by the spirit of innovation which characterized the present century.

Now it is obvious that these evils, the baleful effects of which will never be fully revealed until the day of judgment,

must be charged either against those who have introduced the instrument

or against those who have opposed its introduction. "

We have shown that his claim that the major premise of this accommodation mode of thinking is totally wrong. That statement was:

Rubel Shelly: And I know he (Paul) worshiped with and even participated in ritual purifications with Jews long after he had left all that personally (Phil. 3:4b-9; cf. Acts 21:20-26).

Therefore, as we look at the following statement remember that the "foundation" has been built on sand. Philippians 3:4b has been quoted as proof-text but the whole verse says just the opposite.

Paul didn't go to Jerusalem to worship like and with the Jews. Rather, he was allowing the elders in Jerusalem and the Jews who rejected Christ to carry out Christ's command that Paul would preach to people in high places.

The result was not for Paul to worship but for Satan to use people to repudiate and attempt to murder Paul.

If the preacher was correct and Paul really became a Jews to win the Jews then he surely failed. Perhaps the message is: "don't attempt to compromise to win people."

Rubel Shelly:The same principle could lead some of us to be a bit less inflexible with some of our unbelieving friends. We may have left behind some things from our pre-Christian life that we now even despise.

But before we treat with contempt people who still dress, talk, or act as we did before we knew Christ, we should be careful lest we abandon the principle Paul has set forth here.

Some of you are particularly sensitive, for example, about the music of our time that you feel degrades people and sounds an anti-Christian note. So you aren't into music. You reject the cheatin', drinkin', and foolin' around that you hear glamorized in country music, so you don't like country music. You've heard some of the lyrics of Marilyn Manson's songs and read about the bizarre antics at his concerts, so you don't like rock music either. You agree with Jesse Jackson's attack on Ice-T and the Geto Boys, so you disapprove of rap music.

But, hold on before you go too far. Is the only type of music we can smile to know about or hear the songs we sing at church? I don't think Paul would say that.

He would appreciate the spiritual integrity of Marty Rowe in country music.

He would applaud the success of Amy Grant and be sympathetic to her because of the jabs sometimes directed toward her Christian beliefs.

From the impact they've had on some Christian teens I know, I think he would be grateful for DC Talk.

See First Had Report of DC Talk

Why do I believe not a word of that statement?

See Amy Grant's Divorce

We don't pass judgment on Amy Grant but we remember the old folklore that you will never be applauded in the world unless you first sell your soul. Dr. Shelly has endorsed Amy and claimed that Paul WOULD APPLAUD and be sympathetic to her. We quote just a bit from an article:

"After 16 years of marriage Grant's ex-husband Gary Chapman testified that Amy came to him in late 1994 and said: "I don't love you anymore You're the biggest mistake I've ever made. ... I've given my heart to another man" (CCM Magazine, January 2000, p. 36).

"In an interview with CCM Magazine, Grant notes that she and her husband went through numerous counseling sessions beginning in 1986. Not only did this counseling not save her marriage, some of it apparently contributed to it. She quotes one counselor who gave her the following unscriptural advice:

"Amy, God made marriage for people. He didn't make people for marriage. He didn't create this institution so He could just plug people into it. He provided this so that people could enjoy each other to the fullest" ("Judging Amy," CCM Magazine, November 1999, p. 36).

"Grant concluded from this that "if two people are not thriving healthily in a situation, I say remove the marriage [and] let them heal" (Ibid., p. 36).

Hmmm. Wonder what pseudo-counselor that was.

"[Amy] doesn't want the conservative fundamentalists coming to the concerts. SHE WANTS YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WILL GET UP AND MOVE TO THE BEAT, people who want to be pinned against the back wall by the volume for two hours. That's want she gives them. Besides, Amy never had the traditional Gospel music fans, so how could she turn them off? She has never been the darling of the fundamentalists" (Don Butler, Gospel Music Association executive director, cited by Bob Millard, Amy Grant, p. 154).

Shelly at Woodmont Hills Endorses Paul Who Endorses D. C. Talk, but:

"And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, [There is] a noise of war in the camp. And he said, [It is] not the voice of [them that] shout for mastery, neither [is it] the voice of [them that] cry for being overcome: [but] the noise of [them that] sing do I hear. And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.." (Exodus 32:17 - 19)

From a first hand report:

"Numerous strobe lights which were used during certain parts of DC Talk's session along with a combination of the other effects. An interesting thing we noticed was that every time DC Talk played a secular song such as the Beatles' Help and the Doobie Brothers' Jesus is Just Alright With Me, the crowd got louder and more excited. DC Talk also used, Jimi Hendrix's, Purple Haze [Editor note: a drug reference], and the sound of the mouthpiece instrument made famous by the Rock singer, Peter Frampton. Each time either band did anything secular the amount of body surfing increased as well as other behavior unbecoming of Christians. That should suggest that the majority of the crowd was there for the "rock" music and the Christian aspect had nothing to do with it.

"The use of the term "freak", according to its original meaning, has now been turned completely around. Those who were hippie counter-culture "freaks" were radically saved. When we were called "Jesus Freaks" in the '70's, it was a reference to our past life, but also implied being willing to live for Jesus in a holy, sober and righteous manner that ran completely contrary to the popular hippie culture --- in other words becoming a new type of "freak".

"DC Talk has twisted the term completely around to mean Christians mimicking the popular culture --- willing to act wildly, moshing, head-banging, etc. (like "freaks") to spread the Gospel."

Contrary to the promotion of Voodoo or explicitly sexual music (Rock) and secular entertainers, we have just proven from Paul himself that he didn't use worship rituals of the "flesh" and that would include the effeminate musical performance of the Jewish cleryg who hung around men too long. Worship "in spirit" specifically excludes external stimulation and therefore Jesus said to pray in our closet.

Paul defined "singing" as in the heart and the purpose was to "teach and admonish one another" and the resource was the Word of Christ or Spirit and the melody would be in the heart and not the external, destructive melody of contemporary Rock or Rap. Paul did not command music as something to smile to as we shuffle to Rap and Rock.

I happen to know that this last statement is not a fact because in many ways Paul ridiculed the "Rock, Rap and Contemporary Pagan" music of his time and place. Because Paul was 100% masculine and dedicated to Christ he could claim to preach "Christ and Him crucified." That means that he would not teach the common Greek theatrical philosophy.

Rubel Shelly: What if we could create a venue on our property for people who appreciate and perform these styles of music? I'd say, "Hurray!" Paul would say, "Yes!" It's a way for us to become all things to all people in order to save some.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

And we're going to do it here, God being our helper.

No, it won't be in our worship services! But we are exploring the creation of a time and place for music that

can range from blue grass to rap, from rock (that "F" word again) to contemporary Christian in an environment that is wholesome for anyone who wants to participate.

See why and how Seeker-Centers are built with stolen money. From Josephus with the Judas connection.

Just as we are bent on joining the Baptists, many Baptists are catching on to the drug high produced by music:

"This is how CCM marches, as well as Country Gospel and several other varieties. The powers of music over the soul is mingled with a few Christian lyrics and voila! the leopard has changed its spots! 'Why teens, by the thousand, are getting saved!!!' It may be that the Holy Spirit can get through the carnality and soulish tripe and save one or two along, but modern 'Christian' music the statistics are not a good testimony to the eternal results of.

"Many are the Christians today who have never been exposed to spiritual music. All they've ever heard sounds like a honky-tonk trip through the pearly gates with a ragtime piano player, or the mechanical rhythms of bass guitars and drums. Many think that because it is not classified 'Rock & Roll,' and the bass and drums are subdued, they are in the bounds of safety.

"It amazes me how men can preach against 'Rock & Roll' and 'Country' music, then turn right around and 'let-her-rip' with a few verses of 'I'll Fly Away' and 'Mansion Over the Hilltop.' There is a great need for honest evaluation of what is holy and acceptable to the Lord and that will not cringe holy angels. Click for the Rest of the Article

Before you get too outraged remember that this is within the context of a preacher and a church which has subscribed to the Post-Modern idea that the gospel is seven facts about Jesus and the epistles of the apostles are just plain faulty interpretation. However, this is not a statement of theology but of loss of faith:

"The philosophy of many religious leaders is that the believer must use the music of the world, the dress of the world,

the language of the world or the entertainment of the world to reach the world for Christ.

Yet this philosophy of evangelism is completely contrary to Scripture and cannot be supported by Scripture,

especially by First Corinthians chapter nine. FOUNDATION Magazine

Students of early revivalism note that much of its rituals and methods of exciting a charismatic breakdown and its most powerful music was derived from Blacks still enslaved but who had developed a form of worship which satisfied their ancient African roots -- including Voodoo -- in the form of a white denomination. A pretend Christianity satisfied the "masters" and the slaves.

Connected to this was the belief that the preacher was the "father" and that his flock was "the family of God." See the Slavery - Free Will Battle plan.

Read Francis Trollope comment on the clergy-women role in religion. And On Women and Camp Meetings with the Priests.

In a huge paradox, the whites believed themselves superior but were powerfully influenced by the ancient paganism of "inferior" slaves. This is true because the religion of people closer to nature reflects ageless traditions of calling up the gods in order to call them down upon the heads of the white, slave-owning society. And the most powerful "proof" of spirituality is and has always been sexual arousal -- call it "spiritual" if you will:

Rock: For decades African Americans had used the term rock and roll as a euphemism for sex, and Presley's music oozed sexuality. Presley was hardly the only artist who embodied this attitude, but he was clearly a catalyst in the merger of black and white culture into something far bigger and more complex than both.

William ("Hoss") Allen in Nashville, Tennessee--who created rock-and-roll radio by playing hard-driving rhythm-and-blues and raunchy blues records that introduced white suburban teenagers to a culture that sounded more exotic, thrilling, and illicit than anything they had ever known. Britannica Rock and Roll

And of Rap: Hip-hop (music for rap) originated in the predominantly African-American, economically depressed South Bronx section of New York City in the late 1970s. As the hip-hop movement began at society's margins, its origins are shrouded in myth, enigma, and obfuscation. Britannica Members.

The romanticization of the outlaw at the centre of much of gangsta rap appealed to rebellious suburbanites as well as to those who had firsthand experience of the the harsh realities of the ghetto.

And it is clear that the so-called "gospel music" which has almost no "gospel" is a product of Hill Billy, Southern black protest songs and a huge component of Voodoo.

How can you sanctify something which has been the most destructive introduction of ancient African paganism (which is their religious music and they have a right to it) by providing a "wholesome environment."

A 19th-century offshoot of the spiritual was the gospel song. Influenced by "correct" European music, it had composed melodies and texts, was sung with instrumental accompaniment, and (unlike the folk hymns) was written to be harmonized. The black spirituals developed mostly from white rural folk hymnody. (Blacks and whites attended the same camp meetings, for instance, and black performance style counterinfluenced the revival songs.

Paul could have allowed the "uncovered prophesying" in Corinth to have continued. There "assemblies did more harm than good" and this is why Paul silenced the songs out of their own "spirit" and ridiculed speaking in tongues by comparing it to the clangs and tinkles of Greek pagan magic.

He could have attracted "many thousands" by allowing the women "just out of paganism" to continue their charismatic rituals as "worship teams." Their old religion had a better idea: Incarnate the prostitutes as prophetesses. They could attract the seekers and "strip them of their money before they could get out of town." Well, if ministry to lovers of Rock and Rap calls for a venue for rock and rap in the church building then why would not compassion for prostitutes and homosexuals lead to a prostitute service with us providing the venue? The Greeks in Corinth thought that this was a fine idea because principle was less important than numbers.

Rubel Shelly: It can be a point of contact with our culture. It will be part of our commitment to obey the biblical commandment to become all things to all people. It will be a point of contact with some who do not know Christ in order to share the Good News with them.

Conclusion

The church exists in visible, incarnational form to exhibit God's glory, power, and righteousness to the world and to reach beyond itself to carry the knowledge of salvation to people facing eternity without Christ. This doesn't change. But the means and methods by which we accomplish that goal have changed repeatedly and drastically. They continue to change before our very eyes.

Is this why the church is shrinking or have the methods and motives changed?

Since we just have to go with the flow and give up on the Words of Christ "as they have been once for all delivered to the saints" then:

Rubel Shelly: In today's postmodern world, our best hope at apologetics is a practical demonstration of the difference Christianity makes to those who embrace it. That means that we must become all things to all people for the sake of saving some.

The Willow Creek Association of which Woodmont Hills is a member also stresses the "idolatry of talent" in which the gospel has no power unless it is "incarnated" in a form to exhibit God's glory:

Ulrich Eggers, a leading German evangelical who served as press spokesman at the Hamburg sessions, stresses that Willow Creek's "central message has nothing to do with drama or music,

but rather with the living portrayal of dedicated Christians." (idolatry of talent)

"Yet Eggers is worried that liberals may only accept the methodology and forms of this program. He says nothing can change "unless content is changed; the gospel must become a matter of the heart." Christianity Today

Rubel Shelly: Our timidity in heeding this biblical mandate will continue to keep us from faithfulness to our God. It will also continue to deprive those who could be brought to faith from their opportunity to know Christ.

We have shown that the premise that Paul worshiped with and like the Jews is totally a wrong reading of the Word. Therefore, becoming all things to all people Re. Dr. Shelly is contrary to the gospel itself. To become all things to all people would be to go into a mission field -- not for thirty days to collect fodder for sermons and waste airfare -- but for five years.

Rubel Shelly: Our most effective form of outreach for the coming century will not be VBS (the Baptists will get the kids) and a gospel meeting every summer but a systematic plan of compassionate outreach that lets people experience the love of God at our hands and opens their hearts to our telling of the gospel story.

Oh, poor Jesus! Lord, Lord, if only He had our hands then his gospel would work!

And while you are reaching your hundreds and spending all of that money for "venue" for Rock, Roll and pulpit sharing with AIDS, the world will grow to 9 billion souls.

Rubel Shelly: It's time for us to get past griping about the change that has gone on in our world while we slept and to begin addressing it in the mighty power of Jesus Christ.

I haven't noticed anyone griping about the change to the world but to the church. Most people I know love the world so much that they want to bring it into the church and give it a second incarnation and call Rock and Roll holy and more powerful than VBS and gospel meetings.

Well, where is that legalistic command: "Thou shalt become all things to all people?" Nope.

The command is for those on the payroll to: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel." Signing up converts was not Paul's commission.

When Paul became all things to all people he did not mean that he participated with all people to win all people to the opposite, Christian view. Rather, when Paul became all things to all people he meant that he, a Jew, could become a slave to a Gentile whom his older fraternal brothers could not touch without being contaminated.

He could be a Jew to the Jews by not deliberately offending them by attending a pork barbecue.

One can never be a slave church by incarnating it with the world in order to be a master. To meet Paul's demand, the preacher would not mount such a violent attempt to discredit the church he hired into to "pastor."

Providing a venue for Rap and Rock means forcing the church and the preacher to become a slave of pagan and destructive music which is not Biblical.

You may read the rest of the sermon. I have just dealt with the Scriptures which have been distorted.

In Part One: Dr. Shelly used 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 and claims: First, Paul wanted people to know Christ so badly that he took the initiative to know and be like others as much as possible.

We showed that this is not true and is not based on the whole context.

In Part Two: Dr. Shelly at Woodmont Hills Family of God has used Philippians 3 to prove that Paul worshiped with and like the Jews.

However, we showed that Paul stated just the opposite and that the verses Dr. Shelly did not quote implicates Judaizers and homosexuals as those whom a believer should beware of

In Part Three: Dr. Rubel Shelly at Woodmont Hills Family of God used Acts 21:20-26 to prove that Paul worshiped with and like the Jews when he assisted several men in taking vows at the temple.

We have shown that this is not true. If this is not true then the misuse of Scriptural facts doubly removes the right of Dr. Shelly's church to add the "secular and sexual religious music of Rap and Rock."

Part Four: Dr. Shelly at Woodmont Hills Family of God uses Philippians 3 to justify a venue on church property for Rock, Rap etc. as a way to become all things to all people in order to save some.

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The Religious Jews still practicing pagan fertility rituals with external music Click for more	FINALLY, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. Philippians 3:1 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. Philippians 3:2
The National Jews who worship God in the Spirit or mind. Click for more	For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Philippians 3:3

Rubel Shelly - Instrumental Music for All People

Rubel.Shelly.Instrumental.Music.Spring.Hill.Christian.Church